Re: Good, easy to use, upstream defaults for zsh (i.e. improving usability)

[Keir Mierle <mierle@xxxxxxxxx>]

On 7/11/05, Nikolai Weibull
<mailing-lists.zsh-workers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Keir Mierle wrote:
> 
> > On 7/10/05, Mike Hernandez <sequethin@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> > > On 7/10/05, Keir Mierle <mierle@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> > > Though I'm not a developer, I can't help but reply to this.   I've
> > > used many linux distributions, and have built linux from scratch
> > > (linuxfromscratch.org). I've also used FreeBSD and OpenBSD, and OS
> > > X.  Each comes with it's own set of defaults (apart from LFS which
> > > has no default zsh config, due to it's being built directly from
> > > source).  Most programs leave any customization to the end user.  If
> > > you use zsh with any of the above mentioned OSes you'll find a
> > > slightly different set of defaults.
> 
> > So what? Did you stop to think for a second, that if the default zsh
> > config didn't suck, then the various distributions might use it?
> 
> How are any of the other shells' defaults any better?

They're not. They're just as awful. This all the more reason to do one better.
Do you think Google, when creating Google Maps, said 'Yahoo maps and
MapQuest can't pan without refreshing, why should we?' No, instead they said
'Hey, we can do something really useful the competition doesn't.'

> > > I would prefer, as an end user, that the developers focus their
> > > efforts on producing the best possible shell, and leave the
> > > customization to us.
> 
> > And as an end user, who on occasion tries to evangelize zsh, I would
> > prefer if developers spent a a small amount of time making zsh work
> > well, by default, most of the time, for most people.
> >
> > Me: Try zsh, it rocks.
> > Friend: Ok, I got zsh. This prompt sucks. How do I fix it?
> > Me: Go get a .zshrc from the net
> > Friend: Ok, completion doesn't complete .pdf's for acroread like you
> > said it would.
> > Me: Go spend hours tweaking your .zshrc.
> > Friend: Gah! Why don't they just include this by default?
> > Me: Beats me.
> > Friend: Screw this, I'm going back to bash. It's available on most
> > platforms anyway,
> > why go through the pain of copying around my .zshrc?
> 
> Same in Bash (for example), no?

Exactly. Bash is just as bad. Which is precisely why we should do one (or two)
better. Which is what we have to do to convince most people to
switch-- the barrier is higher for zsh because it is not installed on
most machines.

> I hear what you're trying to do, but a Z-shell isn't a fish (wow, that
> was a horrible pun),

I'm not suggesting zsh become fish. I am merely suggesting that zsh should not
suck, out of the box, by default.

Thanks,
Keir